Mail Art News #63: Ruud Janssen

artist: Domenico Ferrara Foria

The following interview with Ruud Janssen took place by email in Oct / Nov 2023, with minor edits for clarity and formatting. Works of art are placed throughout, sometimes randomly, sometimes not-so-randomly. Enjoy.

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TB (Thomas Brown): How did the world look or feel just prior to your discovery of mail art?  And then after you discovered mail art?  Please include songs for the soundtrack.  I will attempt to find these songs on YouTube for inclusion into the blog post. 

• Song for opening scene: 

• Song for when you got into mail art:

RJ (Ruud Janssen): Well, a movie about Ruud Janssen should have an opening scene with my birth in a house in Tilburg, Netherlands. As third child of my parents, I was the first to be born at home, in the middle in the night on July 29th in 1959. My grandfather built that house as I later learned, and I lived there the first 25 years of my life.

A Title? Well, since they are making a movie, they should call it The Life of RJ.

Opening Scene: Minimal Compact, Live-album, Title: Ouverture (Album Live, 2011). The group isn't that known, but for me a life-changer.

Scene when entering Mail-Art: Echo & the Bunnymen, Crocodiles, Title: Stars are Stars (1980). The same year when I started with mail-Art.

I was already as a teenager communicating with people on a global scale. Had my contacts in DDR [East Germany], Argentina, Russia, etc….  But those connections were correspondence and exchange of postage stamps, a hobby my father had and which I grew up with.

In 1980 something did change though. I started to send out decorated envelopes and started to combine my correspondence and my passion for drawing and creativity. Even without having any connections to the network itself. I discovered that because some local journalist discovered my hobby and did an interview which appeared in the local newspaper. That brought me the new connections……

See: https://iuoma.blogspot.com/?view=sidebar for my old blog

See: https://www.iuoma.org/ot_pub.html for first digital publishing and writing my thoughts

Ruud Janssen, 1983

TB: Thanks. Yes I was able to find the videos. Of course, who knows which videos will play in which countries due to the various rules, but I will include them into the blog. 

After reviewing the content at https://www.iuoma.org/ot_pub.html, I feel confident referring to you as a Grandmaster of Mail Art. Would you consider yourself a Grandmaster of Mail Art?

Just this year (2023) I read your book of interviews, Mail-Interview Project by Ruud Janssen - Part 1. For the readers, is this the best link for the interviews: https://mailinterviews.blogspot.com/ ?

And, Ruud, before we go any further, are there any topics you don't want to talk about? and why not? I will be including your answers in the blog post, so don't tell me anything you don't want the readers to see. [Note to the reader: I was being intentionally, comically annoying with this question. I know! -TB]

RJ: No, I wouldn’t like such a title at all.

I do realize that I know quite a large part of the network and have done a lot of things. Mail-Art in the 80-ies was quite different to what the new generation sees.  The perspective of how the time then was, with the computers far away and communication being a slow process for the artists, is quite fascinating when you realize that there was no Internet with browsers until early 90-ies.  I investigated these changes with that mail-interview project and also documented that time-frame.

Repeating the same things over and over again has never been what artists do. They follow the new ways and interpret them with their views of the times.

Ruud Janssen, 2010

I have the two sides inside me. Studied physics and mathematics in the 70-ies and 80-ies, and switched to the informatics field in which I am working as a teacher.  The creativity was always there too, and I chose as a child to be creative without the restriction that I would make things others like. I make what I like, not what sells. That makes THE Mail-Art network an ideal place. Not commercial aspects (Mail art and money don’t mix like Lon Spiegelman stated). I was in contact with the participants of the beginning-years (including the big names as people see that). But they always were like a global network of friend that exchanged ideas.  No fixed rules except the basic rules in Mail-Art that have been written down so often, and which rules people try to bend sometimes as well.

I placed the five Mail-Interview books also on Academia.edu for research purposes. So that is the best source for the texts. 

https://www.academia.edu/6764964/Mail_Interview_Project_by_Ruud_Janssen_Part_1

Documenting the Mail-interviews was also an experiment. It started with hard-copy booklets with limited edition. They are now collectors items and collected in archives and even MOMA (NY) has the set. Publishing online in the 90-ies was first done with the help of James W. Felter in Canada. That website is no longer online. I used my own domain iuoma.org as well, but that only stays online as long as the hosting is paid of. Therefore I brought the information also to some worldwide places to see to it that it stays alive a bit longer. 

Also hard-copy books can be bought at: https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/iuoma with the help of LuLu.  The hardcopy books that are already printed will probably stay alive longer than the digital websites.

Of course there are subjects I don’t want to talk about. Therefore I don’t mention them in an interview. If you ask something that is none of your business, then you will get a reply stating that. I only write down things I want others to read. If I have thoughts I don’t want people to read, I could call them secret thoughts on mail-art, which I did. I published those as well to discover (online and in book form), but it is for researchers to find out, I don’t have to spread the word if people are not interested to look things up. Be curious, and a world opens upon you. That is what I teach my students these last years as well.  I use even ChatGPT to teach them how they get the right or the wrong information. The basic idea is be curious and think for yourself. Don’t let others think for you all the time, but learn from the knowledge there already is. Don’t assume others know all. Learn and add what you learned and discovered to the knowledge of the world.

The Six Digits, Ruud Janssen, 2024

TB: I was going to ask you to write a few lines describing mail art in the year 2100, but since you mentioned ChatGPT, I have asked it to complete the task and we can read it over to see what we think of its answers. What do you think?

With technology ever advancing, I get the notion that by 2100, people will have agreed to get computers implanted directly into their brains to allow for direct internet access and direct brain to brain communication. That sounds extremely empowering but also extremely terrifying at the same time. What if someone gets their brain held for ransom by hackers? Anyway, I look forward to your thoughts on the future of mail art.

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ChatGPT:

I don't have access to information beyond my last knowledge update in September 2021, so I can't provide specific details about mail art in the year 2100. However, I can speculate on how mail art might evolve in the future based on current trends and technological advancements.

In the year 2100, mail art could continue to exist as a unique and cherished form of artistic expression. Here are some possibilities for what mail art might be like in the future:

Augmented Reality (AR) Integration: Mail art in 2100 could incorporate augmented reality elements. When recipients receive a piece of mail, they might use AR glasses or a similar device to enhance their experience. This could include animated art, 3D sculptures, or interactive elements that come to life when viewed through the technology.

Biodegradable and Sustainable Materials: Given the growing focus on environmental sustainability, mail art could primarily be created using biodegradable materials. Artists might prioritize eco-friendly options, and the themes of the artwork may reflect ecological concerns and conservation efforts.

Global Collaborations: With advanced communication and transportation technologies, mail art collaborations might become even more global in scope. Artists from different countries could easily exchange and combine their works, resulting in a rich tapestry of cultural influences and ideas.

Personalized and Interactive Experiences: Mail art could become highly personalized, with artists tailoring their creations to the specific interests and preferences of the recipient. Additionally, interactive elements, such as puzzles or hidden messages, might be integrated into the artwork to engage the recipient further.

Blockchain and Digital Authentication: To ensure the authenticity and provenance of mail art, artists might utilize blockchain technology to create digital certificates of authenticity. This would provide a secure way to track the origin and history of each piece of art.

Artificial Intelligence and Generative Art: Artists might use AI and generative algorithms to create mail art. These technologies could assist artists in generating unique, intricate designs and patterns, pushing the boundaries of what is artistically possible.

Continued Subversion and Political Commentary: Mail art has a history of subversion and political commentary. In the future, artists might continue to use this medium to express dissent or critique societal and political issues.

Virtual Mail Art Galleries: Physical mail art exhibitions could be complemented by virtual galleries accessible online. This would allow for a broader audience to engage with and appreciate mail art from around the world.

Holographic Mail Art: With advancements in holographic technology, artists might create mail art that incorporates holograms, creating stunning and immersive visual experiences for recipients.

Remember, these are speculative ideas, and the actual evolution of mail art in the year 2100 may take different paths. As with any art form, the future of mail art will depend on the evolving interests and creative visions of the artists of that time.

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Bonus Prompt for ChatGPT:

Please write a rambling rant on a random topic that I can mail to my friends.

 

ChatGPT:

Dear Friends,

Have you ever found yourself lost in the labyrinthine musings of your own mind? It's a curious place, that labyrinth, filled with secret passages and hidden doors leading to uncharted territories of thought. Today, as I sit pondering the mysteries of existence, I can't help but embark on a rambling rant about the enigmatic concept of time.

Time, my dear friends, is a fickle and confounding companion. We're constantly racing against it, trying to capture moments and memories in the fragile cages of our minds. But time slips through our fingers like grains of sand, leaving us with nothing but the haunting echoes of what once was.

Take a moment to consider the relentless ticking of the clock, the ceaseless march of seconds, minutes, hours. It's as if time itself is a merciless taskmaster, cracking its whip, demanding our attention and productivity. We've become slaves to the hands of the clock, always chasing after something just out of reach.

But in our obsession with deadlines and schedules, have we forgotten the beauty of spontaneity? When was the last time you allowed yourself to get lost in a book, to wander aimlessly through the woods, or to simply lie on your back and watch the clouds dance across the sky? Time, my friends, should be our ally, not our adversary.

And then there's the past, that vast repository of memories and experiences. We often find ourselves dwelling in the shadowy corridors of the past, reliving our triumphs and tragedies. But is it not peculiar that we can't change a single moment of it? The past is a crypt, an unalterable archive, and yet we persist in revisiting it as if we could rewrite history.

The future, on the other hand, is an uncharted territory, a land of infinite possibilities. It's both thrilling and terrifying. We plan, we dream, we worry about what's to come, but the future remains as elusive as a wisp of smoke. We stand on the precipice of the unknown, and it's both exhilarating and paralyzing.

In our quest to conquer time, we've created devices and gadgets that promise to save it. But have they made us masters of time, or have they simply made us prisoners of our own making? The constant buzzing of notifications, the pressure to be forever on, it's as if we've willingly strapped ourselves to the relentless treadmill of modern life.

So, my dear friends, let us take a step back, breathe deeply, and remember that time is a wondrous enigma. It's the canvas upon which we paint our lives, and it's the tapestry that weaves us all together. Let's not let the ticking of the clock drown out the music of our souls.

With heartfelt wanderings and philosophical ponderings,

[Your Name]

[Note to the reader: Interesting, but I don't think I'll send it out! -TB]

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Ruud Janssen

RJ: Asking things about the future to a chatbot is always strange. When you realize the chatbot only gets input from the past and copy-pastes from the sources it finds to make a generated text which is finetuned through some algorithmics...

I have a book from 1967 in which they write about the future of computers. That is another funny example. Some views came through, but the discovery of HTML as a platform for website in 1989 started new changes that we didn’t think of before. Also a G4 network that makes Internet available without cables changes the views.

So any generated view lacks the impact of upcoming discoveries or changes in the world we could not predict.

So that computer-hardware can interact with human beings is already being used. But that we allow the computers to decide for us is a big topic.  Why learn new languages when you have Google Translate?  Just because computers make mistakes when things are not checked by the creators and only then things will be adjusted.  You know the spell-checker that changes your words but also makes wrong decisions.  Only humans can correct all the time. A.I. will have a go at it, but that check is always needed.  When I go to a bank, what do I actually do?   Do I walk to the local park and look for a bank near the water.  Or am I looking for a building where money business takes place.

The use of A.I. only means that the people building it get smarter and the people using it get dumber.  A very difficult evolution which isn’t stopped yet. People like being lazy. But nature is built on the principle that the stronger survive.

So I like to look at the basic principles of life also in subjects like this.

The future of mail-art?  Sending out mail has vanished for a large deal in our systems.

The future of communication?  There are more ways to communicate every year, and therefore it has become more difficult to reach each other or even to understand each other.

So only in personal and time intensive moments real communication takes place.  That was what Mail-Art used to be about. Not massive mailings and putting your images on all the social media platforms. 

Look at this interview. You putting time into it, reading my answers and suggestions, I typing my views.

We both learn from this.

https://artwanted.com/iuoma/gallery/

But the eventual result, an interview, will never have the same impact to others unless they invest time to understand what we are saying and doing.

I use ChatGPT in lessons already to explain to students that they need to think more and not just trust what computers come up with. The Chatbot from BING (Microsoft) is also interesting; it brings the sources on which the texts are based. That way I can research better to see if I can believe the computer's story. 

So with ChatGPT we need to understand that we have to think better for ourselves, and only can generate texts more easily, but that the faults are more difficult to find.  The fake world is obviously there. You just must have your eyes open. 

What does ChatGPT think mail-art is  He only looks up definitions of others from the past. Or views that are well documented on the internet.  The personal experience isn’t always documented well enough.  That was also one of the reasons I started the mail-interview project which absorbed over 6 years of intense work.

TB: Thank you for your insights. I imagine there are government programs in secret research labs that are looking for ways to develop AI programs that really can predict the future, based on analysis of patterns of the past and present, or at least give % calculations for possibilities / probabilities of events taking place.  

That is really cool that you are using AI as a tool with your students, to help them think about topics. Yes, I understand, ChatGPT is only looking at existing sources to "create" something new. But then there were programs AlphaZero and AlphaGo that attained great strength at chess and the game of go simply by playing against themselves many, many games. 

A cartoon drawing of a duck asking for directions to the River Bank, so it can withdraw money is now needed.

How would you describe your current mail art activities? Do you still favor the quality over quantity approach? 

Yes I am blogging and doing the occasional interview to get more from this practice of mail art, Mail-Art, mailart that I have chosen, that has chosen me, for others have chosen it, have been chosen by it, too. More understanding, more meaningful interaction. 

Ruud Janssen

RJ: The secret works on Internet remain secret for most of us. Only the selected in-crowd know more.

Chess and computers is just a time and memory thing. If you can think out all consequences of a move on a certain level.  Used to play chess-computers in the early years where you could still win with creativity and surprises….. Also found back some old text on computer-art I wrote in 1985, also connected to some early-bird mailartists using computers already. Not that common in 1985 before Internet was available for the masses…

My current mail art activities are very low profile, Yes, quality over quantity, although in the computer-times you can easily do mass-mailings.  I see people post their works on over 20 blogs at the same time. A deadly way to document your work.  So I rather have selective blogs for selective theme’s

Yes, it is about the interaction. Something I miss a lot in the things currently going on. Too much routine sending and receiving. That isn’t interesting for me anymore. 

TB: How difficult would it be to program a computer to make collages from random images on the internet and then mail them to random people AND then have the computer blog about the whole process regularly?

Ok, so we've discussed technology some, and you have been right there in the middle of it all (or at the forefront) in using computers and the internet for creative / mail art purposes, even going so far as to create and admin the IUOMA website. 

I really like that Computer Kunst from 1985 that you shared on Facebook. I'm attaching some computer drawn art probably from the 1980s that I found at a thrift store for fun. I should scan them again and turn them into mail art.  I think you might enjoy them. 

Where is the best place for someone to see a collection of your artworks/mail-artworks?

Computer-Kunst by Ruud J., from a few decades ago

found by T. Brown at a thrift store, a few years ago

Mark Bloch, dot matrix printer, computer-generated sticker, 1983

RJ: A programmer could do that easily. Depends on what there already is (an existing blog, a webserver, etc….) Technically the social media do this already in the form of advertising personal things and catch your attention on the other platforms.  So this is a reality already.

Just google and find an overview where things are sent to.

My own documentation: https://bouncesite.com/iuoma (a website with links to my online world)

I used to play with those plotters as well in the 90-ies. Those were great times. With modern software it isn’t that interesting at the moment

https://bouncesite.com/iuoma

TB: What's new at the TAM Rubber Stamp Archives? I see on the blog that 2023 is the 40th year of the TRSA. 

RJ: Nothing new. The archive still grows and is now 40 years old.

Just a milestone, no special activities.

TB: And IUOMA? How would you describe your daily interaction with the website behind the scenes and with the website users? 

What does a person have to do to get banned from IUOMA? 

RJ: IUOMA is a daily job.  Checking for new members, spammers, and answering messages I get.

Also watching the financial status. The hosting cost a lot, but somehow there are a lot of members sending donations that cover that hosting price of a social network at NING.

Getting Banned from IUOMA can happen when you are a spammer not connected to mail-art.

Also when you don’t follow the obliged guidelines for social networks, e.g. posting illegal stuff, and mobbing and harassing.

This last thing only happened a few time the last decades. Last time was a few years ago, so not in recent years.

TB: Probably only a few more questions. 

What are your favorite types of M.A. to see in your inbox? 

What is pataphysics to you? I googled [the definition] already, but what is it to Ruud J? I've seen it on your envelopes a number of times. I like that foam letter stamp kit you came up with. 

Any other topics you would like to discuss? 

Ruud Janssen outgoing mail, 2015

RJ: Personal mailings with interaction connected to me (so not just random envelopes of postcards).  Some mail-art I get has no connection to me at all. A missed chance…..

Pataphysics. What that is? A conceptual way of thinking.  You have to understand the concept to understand what it is. This isn’t the place to explain it.  There are complete books on the subject.  I studied physics for 6 years, pataphysics looks for the unexplainable things too and creates solutions

Other topics? The interviewer can surely think of something. 

TB: What are your top ten favorite mail-art memories?

RJ: Mail-Art changed my Life is a rubberstamp I often use. It indicates that there are lots of memories connected to Mail-Art.

Ruud Janssen, 2017

To make a top ten isn’t what I would like to do.  I would make something the number one, and am forced to exclude some little memories that really changed my life.

I have written down a lot of my memories. Some shared with the network, some stay private.

So no list from me because of the reasons I started my answer with

TB: Are you opposed to the idea of someone renting space on the outside of the next mail-art envelope you send out? It's an absurd idea, but I like it. 

RJ: The idea of sponsorship can be explored.

But are you willing to send out any messages you don’t agree with?

TB: That could be specified in the contract. 

I am not willing to send out messages that I don't agree with. 

We can also write out the rules for mail art sponsorship.  Haha. It's a fun idea. Of course, if the mail art sponsee does not agree with content provided by the sponsor, the sponsee is not obligated to include the content on their next mailing. Money will be refunded to the sponsor, in this case. 

RJ: Mail-Art and Money don’t mix, a statement by Lon Spiegelman (USA) is still something I believe in. The rules of mail art sponsorship? That would be a terrible mistake.

Mail art has it’s unwritten rules. They have been written down a lot of times. Trying to change the basic concept of rules isn’t a good idea…

TB: Ok Ruud, Mr. Janssen. I thank you for your time, and for sharing your words and thoughts. November and December have been / will be busier than expected for me at my day job, with many extra hours and shifts added onto my schedule until Christmas. I will be slowly getting this interview ready to publish by early January.

from Adam R., 2023